Maybe it’s because I’ve been doing it for so long.
Or perhaps I’ve been behind the scenes and have seen way too much of what “really” goes on.
But I am finding it almost impossible to stomach some of the stuff I see going on the marketing circles. Stuff that has been taught for years and years.. and we are led to believe it’s the ONLY way to run a profitable advice-driven business.
THE BIG FAT FUNNEL LIE
Since when does EVERY person have to be put through some funnel-of-hell?
Why must every product lead to a $10,000 platinum coaching program as the final destination?
I’ve seen some of these “experts” running $10K coaching programs – and I wouldn’t trust them to wash my car, let alone refer my friends or family to them.
When is enough truly enough?
I made a massive mistake about a year ago. One of my subscribers told me about the success he was having with a cool marketing system he created. He told me he’d love to come onto my Inner Circle and teach it. No pitching – he just wanted to share and give back to the community.
We talked about dozen times before I brought him on and I fell for his bullshit.. hook, line and sinker. I didn’t know that he would then get my customer info and offer a “free” coaching session – and do a hard pitch for a $5K “coaching” program.
I was PISSED – especially because 3 of my subscribers called me and told me he delivered ZERO value in his coaching program. I removed his trainings from my Inner Circle and learned a big lesson.
Here’s the thing.. if he just focused on helping them and then came out with a reasonably priced product at a great value – my subscribers would have scooped it up by the thousands. He would have made MORE money, built MORE good will and would have a really strong business right now.
Instead, he went for the big score and ended up with a ruined reputation and starting back at zero. Big, stupid mistake.
That leads me to the following…
Do you really have to monetize every single person.. to the penny? All in the name of “business”?
Some of it feels so manipulative.
I know one person who has every step planned out.
She gets them in with a free report. She upsells product #1. Then, gets them to a “free” event – where she sells them to $3K seminar #2. Then, at seminar #2, she sells them to big-ticket $10K seminar #3.
Is she done yet? Hell no.
Then, it’s the $25K coaching coaching program she sells at that event.
It never f*cking ends!
What’s next? Do we spoon together in your bed and you make me breakfast in the morning for $50K?
And again, we put people like this on a pedestal and try to emulate her business. We see her speak at marketing events and on teleseminars. And we spend $2k to learn her “system” so we can do the same in our niche. And the cycle of manipulation continues.. all in the name of “business”.
It’s all bullshit.
It’s no wonder “Internet Marketing” has become a dirty word.
Would you ever send your parents, or brother, or sister to her “free” event if you knew what she had in store for them?
I wouldn’t. Not in a million years.
But yet, you build YOUR business on that same platform.. and you wonder why you are not making any money.
I’ll tell you why.. it’s because deep down in your soul – you know it’s wrong. And when you fight against your gut. When you go against what you know is right – it never works out in the long run. Never.
Sure, you can string together a few hits. And maybe pull off a good launch or two. But trust me, this story will not end well. Not by a long shot.
The universe has a strange way of working things out. And the “gurus” who were partying it up just a few years ago are now feeling effects of the long hangover as they realize their business was built on a shaky foundation. And they are sucking wind. Big time.
THE SOLUTION?
So how do you monetize? How do you build a business that not only FEELS good… but is insanely profitable as well?
Start with your customers. Focus on creating just ONE product or service that blows them away and provides insane value.
The product should be something you would feel great about having your own friends and family buy.
And when they invest in your product or service – you treat them like gold. Then, you can explore creating more products and services.
Your business will be more FUN to run. More profitable. Simple. And you will feel good about it.
OR – you can create a 19-step funnel to get them into your “Platinum-coated Coaching Intensive Mentorship” program for $20K.
The choice is yours to make, my friend.
WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?
P.S. Join other entrepreneurs who are tired of the bullshit (zero-pitching!)
P.P.S. If you are also tired of the crap, please “like” “tweet” and “+1″ it!
Ryan,
In theory the funnel is a good model to have in your business; but most people aren’t going to always start at the top and work their way through the bottom. Many people will enter at several different points.
I personally know many of the internet gurus who have crashed and burned like you’re talking about…
I agree with you, no matter what level the product in your funnel, it should be your best stuff!
Brian
I agree Brian.
I see people come in at many different price points. Some through a live event and some through a membership site.
But I think too many create an expensive program that is mostly just “fluff”
Keep rockin’
Ryan
It seems to me that so many of the IM gurus are selling the same thing – teaching other people to teach other people how to make money online. It’s an endless circle, almost a Ponzi scheme. So few are delivering anything of real value. Rather than teaching people how to make money doing what they do and know best, they’re just recycling the same crap.
totally agree with you here, pete. especially regurgitating the same crap and have no personal success in building what they teach.
ryan, rad post. spot on!
again, it’s about doing work with integrity, contributing good into this world, and not be a douchebag.
Thanks Vanae!
That’s my goal – to NOT be a d-bag :)
Rock ‘on
Ryan
Absolutely Pete.
If you look deep – there’s zero value.
They sell you on a system that is just teaching you how they sold you. But it’s just air.
Ryan
Sure is – I’ve blown a few grand on stuff like that myself. I finally realized that it’s more about common sense, some good solid strategy and tactics and really, execution and hard work to get it going.
Love your honesty, man!
Pete, I couldn’t agree more. When does the cycle end. Ryan I love your post, because it is all about creating a solution to someone’s problem. I always open your posts…you are really knocking it out of the park. As someone who has been trying to ‘figure it out’ for awhile, it is easy to get caught up in the idea of a ‘system’ or ‘get rich quick’ thing. You can see why people fall for it. But, to really find success…you have got to offer value…not just more of the same. I have had many ‘ideas’ but in the end, I am working with people creating their content for group programs. I took a skill I have experience doing, expert knowledge of, and a passion for and I am working one on one with clients and creating do-it-yourself programs for solo entrepreneurs’ looking to create content for their group programs.
Absolute awesome post Ryan.
I’ve dumped the funnel idea and am currently creating ONE great product. (Took a week off of work to finish it, and I read your post during a short break!)
Keep up the great writing!
~Cam (a.k.a. DesignerCam)
Good for you Cam!
Keep us posted on your progress…
Best
Ryan
It is a fine line between being a complete do-gooder and giving everything away but not taking care of your own business and family, and the other extreme where you suck the life out of anyone in the funnel without delivering real value.
I want to feel good about business and make a buck – but be fairly compensated for over-delivering value. Nothing wrong with seeking fortune that way!
Jerry,
I don’t know how fine the line is.
You CAN do good work AND build a great business at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.
You don’t have to give it all away. I give away a lot – but still sell products as well.
Ryan
Hi Dr. Lee,
Just got back from a mountain bike ride and checked your site as I always do and you are so, so right! For those who look for the quick, big score and don’t give a crap about their members, it will be a short term-thrill for them followed by a long term-chill! With your Inner Circle Teachings and Ryan Lee Method, I recently launched http://www.thewealthytherapist.com which teaches mental health professionals how to make more money, work less hours, and never having to ever again work with the insurance companies-a monthly digital newsletter with call in speed coaching days all for a whopping $5 a month-no upsells, no other products, thats it! It feels awesome to help all the members who have signed up (in the two months, NO ONE has dropped out). Thank you for setting an example of not just how to get it right, but how to treat your members right! Best to the family (and don’t worry, I won’t tell Janet that I call you Dr. Lee).
Regards,
Cory Bank, Ph.D.
http://www.thewealthytherapist.com
http://www.abingtonpsychology.com
Amen! I know Ryan has said this before, but I can’t understand why people buy internet marketing products and advice from so-called gurus who have never sold anything besides “How to make money” products to the IM niche. That niche behaves so differently from other “normal” markets that much of the advice is barely relevant.
Guys like Ryan who have built successful businesses in other niches are far more valuable and have more relevant, well-rounded advice built from real world experience.
Jeff
Love this Ryan!
I myself have taken a step back from a lot of the marketing practices that the experts have been espousing for some time and instead just seek to serve people as best as I can through the gifts that I have… even before I have something to sell them in that area.
I’m finding more and more that people are ASKING me to create them a product or a program that they want based upon my mad ramblings rather than me sitting in my ‘incubator’ thinking ‘hmm, what can I create next?’
I have no problem with the funnel concept per-se, but it’s a concept only not a 100% cast in stone ‘you must do this this way every single time’ law.
The concept is simply a reflection that once people buy from you, like what they’ve bought and how you’ve served them then they’re likely to want more of you and what you offer but it’s easily abused when you engineer it ahead of that relationship.
Now you start to ask “What should I hold out of the $47 product if I want to sell the $197 product?” and “Crap, if I put that in the $197 product then why would the want the $3k coaching??” and instead of truly serving, we start to do people a disservice by making our products and services less than they could be,
How about this for a novel idea instead?
Create a fantastic product first time. Put your heart and soul into it and sell it then let those who bought it TELL YOU what they want next? Then when they tell you, build it, pop your premium label on it if you want and build ‘the funnel’ from the perspective of making things even better rather than one of ‘holding back the goodies’.
Harder work?
Maybe.
Less lucrative? I don’t think so. Not in the long term anyway. After all, who likes being upsold 5 minutes after the first purchase? Not me. But if I feel the need for more of your expertise I’m sure as hell going to ask… and I’m going to expect you to charge me more as I move deeper and deeper into your teachings.
In short, don’t hold back and shortchange them because your preconceived funnel configuration tells you to, instead let them ASK for the next level because they LOVED what you’ve already given them.
Just a thought
Truth, joy and love
Dax Moy
Hey Dax,
Right on with your thoughts and approach! If more of us did this I think we would have GREAT success – and by “success” I mean other outcomes and not just the financial side of things.
Lynell
Lynell,
Dax is always the voice of reason :)
Ryan
Wow Dax – I don’t know where to start.
This could be an entire post itself. It’s REALLY, REALLY good!
I always teach my students to just shut up and listen. People will TELL you exactly what they want. It’s why I’m constantly asking for feedback.
Good stuff, my friend.
Ryan
Ryan,
Great info again – and terrific food for thought.
Clearly we can’t tarnish an entire group of people because of the actions of one or a few. And clearly when people enter into a relationship with any of us, like us, and want more, Branding trumps just about anything – so someone interested in you, Ryan, will trust you to lead them in the right direction to the next knowledge bite they need.
And that’s where so many people fall down: trust. They think of the quick hit and don’t think about building a relationship with another human being.
Believe me – I’ve seen a mess of funnels that didn’t work because NO relationship was built and the products being offered were CRAP.
So I totally agree – start with quality and let the flow of information take care of itself.
Charlie Seymour Jr
http://UltimateAutomatedSalesMachine.com
You got it Charlie.
The best funnel falls apart without the trust!
Ryan
I am so glad you wrote this post, Ryan. Thank you. I have come across people like the ones you mention, and I even bought into their nonsense, unfortunately (I’m still paying for that mistake). But you’re right – it’s a flawed model.
They are very good at getting you to buy, but they offer very little in the way of customer support – and yet some people keep buying! The problem is, they aim their sales pitch at desperate people – they know exactly what buttons to press – and boy, do they press them!
I’m pleased that you are taking this stance, as you are well-known in the internet marketing community, and it’s good that you are willing to stand up for a better way of working.
Julia,
I think the days of having people buy over and over are quickly coming to an end.
And you’ll see that in the desperation of the emails. Lots of BIG sales promoted 10 times. It’s getting ugly for them – in a hurry :)
Rock ‘on
Ryan
Hey Ryan, this is why I’m in the inner circle and coming to DotComXpo: Because you say exactly what I’ve been feeling. I’ve felt so burned out by the constant launching model I’ve been caught up in, trying to create endless funnels and then doing non-stop affiliate promotions.
I’ve been making money but wondering why I haven’t been happy…and you just answered it — “I’ll tell you why.. it’s because deep down in your soul – you know it’s wrong. And when you fight against your gut. When you go against what you know is right – it never works out in the long run. Never.”
Thanks for your support Jason.
I look forward to meeting you at DCX!!
Ryan
Is it the funnel or the high priced coaching programs that are the problem?
I think we’re all naturally going to have products that range in price and as long as each product delivers considerably more value than what you’re charging, it’s ok to introduce your other products to existing customers.
What’s not ok is having a “funnel” for the sake of having a funnel.
Customers should never feel forced into buying the “next thing”.
It should feel natural.
By the sounds of your example, she’s systematically using one product as a platform to pitch the next vs. focusing on delivering value from the original product that people purchased.
If she did that, people would naturally want more (IMHO).
“What’s not ok is having a “funnel” for the sake of having a funnel.”
EXACTLY Stu!
That’s what I was trying to get across. Everyone thinks they MUST have an expensive product at the end of the funnel – even if it’s crap.
Ryan
So there seems to be a few things going on here – when a customer has a challenge or a need then they may NEED intensive coaching and care enough to invest the time and the money on it – offering intensive coaching which reflects the time commitment of the trainer is not necessarily a bad thing. Customers have different needs at different times so having a range of products available is not a bad thing is it?
But I hear your frustration of hitting customers with products 1, 2 ,3, 4 and 5 all at the same time….but when you engage a customer for the first time, should they decide what they need and therefore be offered the products you have available?
Your example of the guy who didin’t deliver value and upsold to a hugh expensive course failed to do the right thing because he failed to deliver 10X value on the cost of the expensive coaching but he didn’t fail by having the coaching in the first place. People paid because they wanted it – unfortunately he didn’t deliver.
So I guess I’m persuading myself that funnels are not bad per se – it comes back to what you’ve said over and over – you need to make sure your product OVER-delivers – when and how you offer those products can be frustrating if you are hit by offer after offer – but whats worse? Having a significant problem or need and NOT getting it fixed because the product developer was shy and wanted for you to go find his other products or trip across them some other way?
My take – offer the products, don’t be cheesy, perhaps outline the key related products in one go (but risk overwhelm) and make sure you OVER-DELIVER.
Mr Marketer
Andrew,
I truly believe MOST of the people are not qualified to offer these high-priced coaching programs. They are just told they MUST have one – and soon realize their “system” can’t be duplicated.
I appreciate your feedback!
Ryan
I think you need to be a little more direct LOL.
I just found you’re site as I shared the other day- I’m immune to “Gurus’ I’ve been on stage all my life. To me most are like barking Carnival workers. But the model you spoke about is taught everywhere.
It’s OK if people want to pay that people will buy what they want I suppose:)
I value everyone who follows my site or buys my book ( my single product at the moment).
I have a bloggers right now I’m coaching she’s getting a major media opportunity and she’s made it into the video interview phase- if she gets it I’ll tell you. But guess how much I’m charging her- Zero. It wasn’t intentional she actually wanted to review my book. I let her then she got this opportunity.
But on the other hand I’ve charged major companies $250 an hour for my consulting. But reading posts like this and a few of your others has made my consider the Nano Community.
For me it’s also an issue of time. I’m a new mom to a 15 month old. Promoting my book website and life in general makes it hard to stay on the phone for hours helping people so I’m looking to scale that. But I really love how you think and I know many people feel the same. On your fav site Warrior Forum ( LOL I know it’s not your favorite) they talk all the time about how they don’t believe any of these “gurus” anymore.
To me if you’re going to help people focus on truly helping and everything else will come.
Thanks for the great post.
Hi Lisa,
Welcome to the family!
First, congrats on your new baby… being a parent it simply the greatest.
And yes, I do charge for coaching as well ($1,000 per hour – and worth much more than that!).
Keep us posted on your client’s success and keep on contributing here!
Best,
Ryan
Wow typo city I shouldn’t write responses before my coffee-
Hello Ryan,
Thank you for your honesty.
What drives me crazy about the funnel system is the sense of scarcity that is promoted. I’d rather have the product I’ve bought plus a list of additional products available if, and when, I want to explore them. Too many times I’ve been caught buying more because I’m thinking I will need another program to enhance what I’ve just bought and I have a little more room on my credit card. If their products are good then people will continue to buy from them.
Ryan — great post as usual. I have felt used and abused by several of the ‘internet gurus’ for years. After having taken a company to over $12 million with 120 employees, I allowed these gurus to convince me that running an online business was magical or different than running a business, period. It’s not. All the business basics are critical and those basics are being ignored — the hype of ‘just create a website and they shall come’ is irresponsible. I believe the same concepts that have served business so well for centuries apply no matter what business you are running — starting with manage your cash, create a profit plan (budget) and track key indicators that tell you when things are working and when they aren’t. Thanks again for your candor. It is refreshing!
Bad-ass post mr lee!!!
i agree 100% with this. your ‘raving fans’ will tell you what they want, all you need to do is given them it!
Paul Mort http://getleanproject.com
PS- cant wait for october!
Hi Ryan,
I couldn’t agree more. I attend a lot of free seminars even through I know I am going to get sold, just for the information provided. Occasionally if the info is good, I will step up and pony up the money. What really irks me however, is the attitude of the presenter that I am a fool to pass up their next offer and that somehow I’m inferior if I don’t see the value in their next product. When some one makes me feel that way, the relationship ends there.
I don’t think it’s the funnel concept that is wrong it is how it is being used to herd people to spend more and more money when they haven’t had time to assess whether the first product has really delivered the goods.
Nick Grimshawe
Great article Ryan – I’ve been to some of these events and HATE the fact that once you can see the model they’re operating you know full well you’ve only been brought into the room to be pitched the ‘big ticket’ program – and boy do they do everything they possibly can to encourage you to feel cr*p if you don’t rush to the back of the room!
What’s laughable is how many of these events actually teach this model – whilst doing it TO you at the same time!
Since I’ve unsubscribed from a lot of these peeps, and focused on helping real world businesses with all of my hard-won knowledge my business is doing so much better. Enough said!
Looking forward to what you’ve got planned for us IC members :-)
cheers
You know, I am so happy to read this post. I’ve been getting the willies lately with all the nonsense hypey BS being thrown around out there. I feel like you are one of the very very few marketers out there with a conscience. You always over deliver and everything I’ve signed up for has helped me enormously!
I am sick of the stupid subject lines, the gimicky emails, the long winded webinars where half the webinar the “guru” is rambling on about how awesome he or she is, the obnoxious facebook posts telling people the latest person they have to “suck up” to…are you kidding me?
I didn’t get into business for myself to suck up to anyone or to start giving my very valued customers BS nonsense. If I can’t really provide a quality product then it is time to get a J-O-B in my opinion. Sheesh.
I love your honesty and how you always say it like it is.
Thanks!
Ryan,
I both agree and disagree to a certain point. Let’s just look at how your opt in is set up. You attract people to you, and they opt in on your site that ultimately they are made an offer to some of your awesome products. I view this as a sales funnel. People visit your site (Leads) > People opt in (prospects) > People buy your stuff (clients). That in itself is a sales funnel.
What I completely with is that some people make you jump through all sorts of hoops to get the big ticket item (if that is what they want). On top of that some of the products including high end masterminds are not worth the investment. So I get what your saying around this and couldn’t agree more.
I just struggle with how you say that the sales funnel is dead, when at the end of the day that is exactly what you have here on your site. WITHOUT all the crap that other people do. Keep up delivering goodness.
Ashley
“Why must every product lead to a $10,000 platinum coaching program as the final destination?”
Because that is the status quo and its the job of its believers to protect and defend the status quo.
Adding something new to a market without trying to change its structure, roots and trajectory is not a huge challenge. But trying to make a course correction in that industry is extremely tough – like David and Goliath tough.
In my business I am trying to change the physical development model for our youth where I ask a similar question to yours Ryan, ‘Why must every young athlete be trained the same way?’ Practice drills over and over and work in some magic “Speed” and “Power” exercises completely ignoring or assessing for any mechanical weaknesses.
In his book Tribes, Seth Godin explains that changing the status quo requires a movement. I believe that the status quo benefits from momentum, and change to that requires a movement that begins to dissipate the energy of that momentum.
I think it also takes some wild and crazy actions to get your message heard. To help meet this objective for myself, I auditioned for Shark Tank in Orlando a few weeks ago. I am in the second round of auditions and waiting to hear back. I auditioned with an offer that has never been presented before that is contingent on leveraging the “Sharks” social and professional networks to get my industry changing message everywhere.
Perseverance my man, we just need to keep pushing.
I agree about a lot of people creating fluff products for very high prices. I joined a mastermind for $7000 one year, and masterminds are great, but it was the guys first mastermind and he had no idea how to run it and expected us to run it because at the mastermind “we are equals.” I am all for masterminds being about equality but as facilitator you need to make sure everything in the mastermind is running effectively.
That said I do think funnels are important to at least think about. Don’t spend all your time on the funnel, maybe take 15 minutes to funnel towards your main product and treat everyone in the funnel as gold whether they are free level or paying. I also think you should filter people out of your funnel at the beginning pretty quickly so the people who your product aren’t for don’t clog up the system.
Also this was a great post to generate some comments. Controversial enough, and well thought out at the same time.
Right on the money once again Ryan.
I am hugely in to creating multiple revenue streams with a recurring basis. Although most people I work with are creating their one and ONLY product.
I’ve invested in some fantastic 2K products and higher investment coaching programs over the years… the ones like Dax Moy’s coaching programs resulted in MANY MANY MANY multiples of the original investment…
There have been others that have been worthless toilet paper…
I suppose it is like most industries the world over, there is a lot of crap in each industry, some good stuff, and a couple of absolute nuggets… The fact I read your stuff still after 7 years is a good reflection of where you stand in that scale.
Hope to make it to CT later this year.
Tim
Love what you said here ” … it’s because deep down in your soul – you know it’s wrong … The universe has a strange way of working things out.”
This is exactly it Ryan and if people were only to take a look at history they would know that long-term, liars never win.
Good points, Ryan.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck then it’s probably a duck. And there are a lot of ducks in the internet marketing pond.
While there is definitely a marketing process–and one that resembles a “funnel”–what matters most is the incremental value provided as one passes through the funnel. If the content is basically a re-hash of the information already provided but revised, altered, or disguised as something else, then it’s BS.
When does it stop? When enough people understand what’s going on and demand more and demand better. The hype will end when the hype stops working.
Thanks,
Clay
I have always disliked the “funnel model” of IM. I thought it was manipulative (not letting people know things until “later” )and it usually didn’t do what it said it was going to do. And I was never in the IM niche, so it really wouldn’t work for me…but it seemed to be what every body did.
Thanks, Ryan, for saying the truth…it’s bullshit! You rock in so many ways!!
(When are you starting your new group?)
Lisa
I am guilty! I use a funnel. LOL!
Ok, seriously, I do use a funnel but not in the traditional sense as described as bad by you Ryan. My funnel is based on starting with newbies working them into pros.
At the beginning of my funnel are lessons to teach people who are new in their business, don’t know much and can’t afford much because they are just starting out.
I can’t stand these “gurus” who take these newbies life savings in one blow and promise success. Success is a journey and we have to learn as we go not only about our business but also about our mindset that may hold us back.
As my clients go down the funnel they are more educated and experienced and ready mentally and financially to move forward in their business.
This is my type of funnel. Don’t know if there is a word for it, it is just how I do it.
Great transparent info Ryan. Even the secret tricks of Internet Marketing are now coming to the surface for all to see. I’m subscribed to a competitor’s email and he’s just announced an ‘OVERSTOCK SALE’, one of the oldest tricks.
The first thing that came to my mind was ‘LIAR’!! This is the respect he has for his list of trusting followers.
Moelwyn.
Still looking for the BUY NOW button for this…
“What’s next? Do we spoon together in your bed and you make me breakfast in the morning for $50K?”
LOL!
Kev
Ryan, this was a pretty good article. But I’ll teach you to write even better if you join my Tungsten Private Mentorship Program for 100,000 rupees, three virgins, and a baby camel. If you refer a friend, I will remove the camel requirement.
Seriously bro, great thoughts. Love it.
That was funny
Ryan.
I agree with you…kinda.
What I’ve found is that unless you get someone into a one-on-one coaching program, 95% of the people will never be successful.
The vast majority of people NEED to be taken by the hand and shown the way…and the only way to do that is in a high ticket, one-on-one coaching program.
Now what I HATE to see is someone coming out of that type of program empty handed. I think that’s a crime.
_______________________
Here’s What I Would Do…
_______________________
If I did start a high ticket coaching program (which I’ve never done and don’t have plans to) is, I would…
1. Price it around $15,000
2. Put $5,000 of it in a separate bank account
3. Use that $5,000 to outsource the building of a kick butt authority site from top to bottom using the same people I use to do my own stuff.
4. I would then use that $5,000 to outsource an seo firm to do ongoing seo for 1 year on the content that is created by my client.
5. I would obviously coach them on creating their own products etc…
But I would separate some of the money to “do it for them” to ensure they have a valuable asset they can point to as a result of my coaching program.
I believe in the ascension model. And I believe in high ticket coaching programs because that’s what most people have to have to become successful online.
Very few people will ever become successful just reading stuff in a membership site or watching video training.
Just my 2 cents.
David
How to succeed in business (and life)? Give A S__t About People!
Thanks for the post.
You got it Alan.
Pretty simple, huh?
Ryan
It seems that a majority of the “Seminars” are total pitch fests. And even the “coaching is often just motivational speeches, which I believe is, at times, necessary. But if you’re coaching someone you better be delivering the goods!
As a coach or as a mentor you need to be able to identify cogs in the wheel right away or go home! Especially if you’re charging through the nose for it. (Which I would be leary taking part in unless I knew someone who really benefited from them) And if I were a bet’n man I’d have to bet that most coaches are probably way overpriced for the ACTUAL VALUE they deliver. (If there is value at all other than the ol’ feel good speech you might get)
I really like the direction you’re going in Ryan, keep it up.
Bret,
Yes, most seminar in the “marketing” world are pitch fests. I’m so disgusted how bad it has become.
There is virtually zero content being delivered.
I’m doing my best to change it.
Rock ‘on
Ryan
It’s happen to me but when I first started to get into the internet. That was 7 years ago. I don’t trust very many people and I do a lot of research now on everything I do because of that happening to me. I spent thousands…
Just glad I am here now. Thanks Ryan…
Great post Ryan as always.
Our business is focusing on giving as much value as we can just like Ryan teaches. Not pay this you get this, pay this you get that and so on. Just one membership thats it.
We need to weed those people out because in my opinion they are taking total advantage of people.
Just my thoughts
Jack
And we are glad to have you here Jack!
Welcome :)
Ryan
Ryan,
Keep up the good work!
There is a need for one-on-one personal coaching because of the accountability factor as others have mentioned. And where that service fits into someone’s business is their choice.
But I think most people in your Inner Circle know as much if not more than some of the “gurus” who claim to have found the holy grail of success and think they’re doing us a favor charging us $10K to $30K to bask in the in their presence to soak in their “enlightened” teachings.
By the time you’ve “ascended” through their funnel you’ve already spent tens of thousands of dollars because they held back all along the way in order to empty your wallet. I don’t support the ascension model that Dan Kennedy teaches, nor do I subscribe to the “traditional” marketing model that you address in your post. They’re greed-driven plain and simple.
I’ve been burned twice by gurus whose names everyone here would know – and I’m pretty sure I know where they got their “marketing” methods from. And they both heavily promoted the ascension model – I think they worshipped it.
It’s gotten so bad that I don’t even attend seminars anymore because of the greed-driven pitchfests. In fact, I heard one guru teaching his coaching clients (I was there) that if your “student” leaves you and they still have credit on their credit card then you didn’t do your job – you either didn’t charge high enough prices or you didn’t push enough of your products – or the products of your JV partners – onto them.
Makes me sick.
The only seminars I will even consider attending anymore are the ones you organize, or the ones you endorse because you’re the real deal and tell the truth.
But I’m here to tell you that I’ll never spend $10K on anyone’s “coaching” services ever again because the truth is they just aren’t that smart – certainly not any smarter than us. Your Inner Circle blows away most of the “gurus” out there who are charging $1997 to $15K. So keep it up – you’re needed in this space; I wish more IM “experts” adopted your business model.
Thanks for keeping it real, Ryan!
All the best.
Lynell
Hey Lynell,
“I heard one guru teaching his coaching clients (I was there) that if your “student” leaves you and they still have credit on their credit card then you didn’t do your job ”
This is exactly what is wrong with what is being taught.
How the heck do these people sleep at night?
Stay on the right path, my friend.
Ryan
Hey Ryan, spot on.
I went through a ‘funnel’ from a social media guru few days ago and it totally p….. me off. It was upsell hell like Filsaime used to do with butterfly marketing.
Interesting to see Harlan’s WSO today, where he specifically said in the sales video and copy there was NO upsell, because to quote him, “upsells suck”.
I’ve bought stuff from him in the past, and upsells didn’t suck then. Seems the world really is changing.
Rock on mate,
Rocky
Hey Rocky,
I can’t speak specifically about Harlan – but yes.. the world IS changing :)
Ryan
I am testing this… my other comments didn’t show up on your blog, so Steve (your programmer) asked me to make a test post. :)
Hmmm I know EXACTLY who you are talking about Ryan, wondered what happened to those modules… hahaha.
I did receive and email from this person too actually but didn’t respond..
Alistair,
I truly wasn’t talking about one person in particular – but it does apply to many people :)
Ryan
OK gotcha Ryan.. :)